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Forum Home > General Discussion > Cold cast resin?

Rosemary
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Posts: 2508

Cold cast - magic words but perhaps being abused these days. Can anyone explain the procedure to me - obviously something would have to be cold to be painted and I associate this term with Austrian Bronzes - but resin???? \Can anyone help my confused mind, please!

September 13, 2017 at 3:07 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Jan
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Posts: 1703

On google others are asking similar question and the replies are not good only what we know that recent ones are painted with enamel or acrylic and not fired.

September 14, 2017 at 5:41 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Rosemary
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Posts: 2508

Cold painted Austrian bronze seems to add £££s to prices but it seems to have caught on as a meaningless term - or perhaps to add fool's value to plastic and resin.

September 14, 2017 at 6:04 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Jan
Member
Posts: 1703

They will try.

September 14, 2017 at 8:49 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Holly
Member
Posts: 168

The original antique Austrian Bronzes were cold painted ie. not enamelled and fired and the bronzes themselves can be quite valuable just because of what they are not particularly the fact they were cold painted.


There are absolutely loads of fake reproductions of the Antique Austrian Bronzes around.


The cold cast resin is the way the resin is chemically set again without heat this is an accurate term rather than a gimmicky one to add 'value'. 


Some people as you say confuse the two and try to make people think that the cold cast resin is something special because it is 'cold cast' which is nonsense really.


September 14, 2017 at 9:10 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Rosemary
Member
Posts: 2508

Thank you Holly, for that information. However do you tell if  an Austrian Bronze is fake or real?

September 14, 2017 at 12:08 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Holly
Member
Posts: 168

Well that's a difficult one, the quality of the painting and casting and a true patina of age that the fakes don't have, it's very easy to be fooled though as some of the fakes/reproductions are nearly as good as the real thing especially some of the smaller ones like the little animals that are so popular.


It's very difficult to tell from a photo what's going on you really have to handle these things to be certain and even the 'experts' often make mistakes.


The best Bronzes are by Bergman so even the signature is faked on reproductions to try to fool people a massive amount of them coming from the far east as usual.


http://www.viennabronzegallery.com/aboutfakes

As with everything these days it is a bit of a minefield. My advice would be if you are buying something for a dolls house buy it because you like it and will enjoy it and be prepared to take the risk that it may be fake unless you buy in person from a really reputable antique dealer and pay the full whack!


If you love it and it is just for your own pleasure it is a personal decision as to whether the provenance really matters. 


September 14, 2017 at 3:06 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Rosemary
Member
Posts: 2508

Wow! Those articles are real eyeopener. I was curious because I bought a bronze dog at an antiques fair - it was quite expensive and recently I bought 2 identical ones on eBay for half the price. The molding on all three is not to the quality of the very few other bronzes that I have bought from antique fairs in the past. I have been put off by cast marks on some just plain metal animals being sold on eBay and, since I have old and -hopefully - original ones, to compare with. I have not been bidding. 

I am appalled at eBay's lax responses too, and the rudeness of the replies of some of the sellers in these articles too. Perhaps the touchiness of the sellers is due to the fact they know that they are cheating the buyers.

Anyway, all very interesting and I think that I will keep my money in my purse unless I really love the item and just don't care about it's provenance.

September 15, 2017 at 10:00 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Holly
Member
Posts: 168

I won't say anything about a particular site for danger of offending people and obvious reasons but let's say I go to a lot of antique fairs as I am sure do a lot of us on here and there are always fakes galore.


There are some people who don't know what they are doing but there are also some people who knowingly scam people and don't give a damn, in my mind I just call these people bottomfeeders they are one step removed from the olden day footpads and pickpockets just out for themselves and have no remorse for the people they fool these people are always full of bluff and bluster and aggression if challenged some of which bravado, some fuelled by guilt, some just innate unpleasantness.


One good rule of thumb is that if an item can be cheaply produced and the value comes from the designer or historic connection with low intrinsic value to materials used (and bearing in mind that labour is extremely cheap in places like china) there will always be people trying to fake such things to make money.


Bronze is not a particularly expensive metal so the value comes from history and authenticity which is why it is so often faked. 


The worse of all though are the resin (plastic) fakes.


There is nothing at all wrong with imitations if honestly sold and you know that is what it is when you buy it but I hate to think of people getting ripped off.


The psychology of pricing is interesting too.


If the price is too good to be true it is probably fake, but many dealers realise people think this way so attempt to add authenticity to an item by asking expensive prices making an item appear desirable and giving it an air of authenticity because it is expensive, which is a 'win win' situation for them.






September 15, 2017 at 1:20 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Rosemary
Member
Posts: 2508

There is also another buzz word being used to inflate prices. It's "Retired"

September 16, 2017 at 6:55 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Brooksey
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Posts: 1721

The recent high prices for "retired" miniatures have usually been achieved in auction format. In most instances, relatively low opening bids have been set by the sellers. The items are either designs which the makers have discontinued, or the artisans themselves are no longer in business, or have died. Artists' work often appreciates after they're gone. Some people are willing to pay a lot for the rarity value of miniatures of which there will be no more - I've done it myself! This is the nature of auctions. The value or worth of any material thing is only ever what someone is willing to pay for it.

September 17, 2017 at 7:25 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Holly
Member
Posts: 168

There is a group psychology at work here though and marketplaces have their own ecological system.


I have often seen items sell for vastly inflated prices on certain auction sites as what can nearest be described as a similar phenomenon to group hysteria sets in and because one person bids high on an item or it has a lot of interest the group consciousness is lulled into an idea that the item is worth a lot of money.


It happens all the time I could quote many examples such as £5 notes etc. It is just human psychology.


It is the same kind of phenomenon as when the old time market traders and hustlers used to drum the crowd into a frenzy to overpay for things.


It happens now but just in cyberspace marketplaces instead.


Can anyone remember the 'Ty' soft toys, they were a typical example of a fad for 'retired' items that reached insane prices and then very quickly became worthless when the novelty wore off.

September 17, 2017 at 7:40 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Rosemary
Member
Posts: 2508

Tulip fever!

September 17, 2017 at 11:20 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Brooksey
Administrator
Posts: 1721

Rosemary at September 17, 2017 at 11:20 AM

Tulip fever!

LOL! I don't think I'm quite so far gone as that!

September 17, 2017 at 11:47 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Brooksey
Administrator
Posts: 1721

Holly at September 17, 2017 at 7:40 AM

There is a group psychology at work here though and marketplaces have their own ecological system.


I have often seen items sell for vastly inflated prices on certain auction sites as what can nearest be described as a similar phenomenon to group hysteria sets in and because one person bids high on an item or it has a lot of interest the group consciousness is lulled into an idea that the item is worth a lot of money.


It happens all the time I could quote many examples such as £5 notes etc. It is just human psychology.


It is the same kind of phenomenon as when the old time market traders and hustlers used to drum the crowd into a frenzy to overpay for things.


It happens now but just in cyberspace marketplaces instead.


Can anyone remember the 'Ty' soft toys, they were a typical example of a fad for 'retired' items that reached insane prices and then very quickly became worthless when the novelty wore off.

Points taken, here, Holly, but I don't think that mass-produced plush toys can be compared with hand-crafted artisan miniatures, each one of which was/is made individually and is a work of art. Many are unique. The quality of the craft in some of the recently-offered retired pieces has never been matched by other makers. 


Also, many of the retired miniatures sold recently have been between 20 and 40 years old, so the prices reached at auction, whilst undeniably high, have been very close in real terms to the original costs of the pieces, particularly for furniture. That's my yardstick when bidding on such miniatures - either its original price adjusted for inflation or what I would be willing to pay today for a similar quality new piece at the likes of the Kensington Dollshouse Festival. I know what I was paying there 25 years ago, and many items were significantly more expensive then than they are today, either in real or absolute terms. I do exceed this formula occasionally for a particular item I want, depending on its rarity, but even then I set myself a maximum bid, and I never exceed it. I don't succumb to group hysteria or bidding frenzies.


I don't consider my miniatures collection as an investment, so I'm not one whit bothered whether it retains its "value" or not. I buy for the pleasure I get from having these beautiful things to play with. If it's ephemeral, so be it. At least my collection is tangible and is something I hope I will be enjoying for the rest of my life.





September 18, 2017 at 5:15 AM Flag Quote & Reply

cestina
Member
Posts: 474

What, pray, is a "retired" miniature? Has it been working before and has now decided to leave the comfort of its home and go out into the world?


Or does it simply mean that the maker has retired?   Since I am not really in the market for antique or vintage miniatures I haven't actually met the phrase.

--

Cestina's Dollshouses: https://czechdollshouses.blogspot.com/2019/04/in-eclectic-manor_20.html" target="_blank">In an Eclectic Manor

September 18, 2017 at 6:24 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Brooksey
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Posts: 1721

cestina at September 18, 2017 at 6:24 AM

What, pray, is a "retired" miniature? Has it been working before and has now decided to leave the comfort of its home and go out into the world?


Or does it simply mean that the maker has retired?   Since I am not really in the market for antique or vintage miniatures I haven't actually met the phrase.

"Retired" is jargon which is current in the world of collectables - any collectables, not just dollshouse miniatures. It's applied to items no longer available new, either because a particular design has been discontinued, or the maker is no longer in business (sometimes because of having retired (in the usual sense!) from working), or has died.



September 18, 2017 at 7:01 AM Flag Quote & Reply

cestina
Member
Posts: 474

Thanks Brooksey. I despair. My beloved language is threatened from all sides now.  The dictionary definition of "retired" is very clear and unambiguous:

'having left one's job and ceased to work.

"a retired headmaster"

synonyms: former, ex-, emeritus, past, in retirement, pensioned, pensioned off; More

2.

archaic

(of a place) quiet and secluded.'

By the way the "last post" column within a thread is also now not updating. It shows my post as the last one, rather than yours. So I nearly didn't check to see if there had been a response. Let's hope it's a temporary blip.

--

Cestina's Dollshouses: https://czechdollshouses.blogspot.com/2019/04/in-eclectic-manor_20.html" target="_blank">In an Eclectic Manor

September 18, 2017 at 7:39 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Holly
Member
Posts: 168

I totally agree that some artisan miniatures are beautiful and made in very low numbers which makes them scarce and when you think of the hours put into making them the prices charged are probably ridiculously low..


I was just really making a point about marketing, the oldest ploy in the book is 'scarcity sells'. Mass market retailers even have algorithms that constantly alter stock levels so it looks as if they only have a few items left to push people to buy and the 'Retired' thing is just a buzzword.


I think the 'Retired' buzzword seemed to take hold with Hummel figurines back as long ago as the 40's and 50's and then in the 80's and 90's it became a QVC buzzword and on things like the jewelry channel to create an aura of desirability and now it has worked it's way into common usage. 


As we have both said ultimately if you want something for yourself and the price you pay is  worth it to you then it doesn't matter as long as you enjoy it and haven't been ripped off. Sadly the cold cast thing does illustrate there are fakes around and sometimes buzzwords are misused.


The only reasonI chirp is because I do hate to think of people being fooled by these ploys and when you dig deep into the psychology of what happens it can be quite enlightening.





September 18, 2017 at 7:47 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Rosemary
Member
Posts: 2508

This has proved to be an interesting and informative thread and Cestina's original definition of "retired" made me smile!

September 18, 2017 at 8:39 AM Flag Quote & Reply

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